Cathal Coughlan - I would like to be remembered as a part of the group of Irish performers who have changed conceptions about what are Irish artists standing for

Cathal Coughlan is an artist who deserves to be in the spotlight. From Microdisney, through Fatima Mansions, to the stunning Bubonique with comedian Sean Hughes. He has supplemented his burgeoning catalogue with a series of brilliant solo albums. An amazing body of work. ‘Song of Co Aklan' is the new album. He is a class poet and storyteller. His warm vocals brings peace of mind. You can read our review of this record here. 
We also had a nice interview with  Cathal about this release, the past, future plans and Brexit

Cathal, it’s a honour to have this interview with you. You been in the music business since very long time. What is the biggest change through  all this years for you?
I suppose the economics of music, technology and economics. The two things are hard to separate, now. There’s the fact that people don’t have to pay for music, to hear it. And the fact that the kinds of people that are involved of music are less diverse, than those I used to know in the past. When I was started people did not have to have as much of a business mind as they do now.

Like you said, in the past the people need to pay for music, now they find it for free. One thing is Spotify. Not a good thing, but also you can listen to music and learn to know music faster than in the past? Do you agree
I agree that it is possible to listen to things, without feeling the amount of commitment which one had to, in the past – the price could be very high. But at the other hand, while a subscriber to a streaming service knows that they do have access to a lot of music, remembering what’s there and what can be listened to is much more of a task, and music gets forgotten quickly. The problem is that a particular track of album may not even be visible to people who listen to that music – the apps and websites don’t resemble record shops in that way. Shorter releases, like singles and mini-albums, can be invisible, even if you can find the artist, because of the way the screen is laid out. The people running the streaming services just want the public to listen to individual tracks in predetermined playlists, because they can predict outcomes more easily that way, and the financial side of that habit suits the services better.

How things going in London with Brexit and things?
It’s actually very bad. It’s just very strange, the pandemic has concealed a lot of things which have been changing, and changing in a chaotic way. Brexit is the beginning of an odd period in Britain.

You been a founder and singer of acclaimed 80s/90s groups Microdisney and Fatima Mansions, I have learn to know you by the second project, what where the lows and highs through all this years?
The best parts were where I felt that my skills and the size of the audience were expanding. That probably sounds very banal, but it’s true. But it is embarrassing when I look back at some of the music that I did, with Microdisney and the Fatima Mansions. A lot of musical compromises made, because I did not know better, and I could not see outside of the situation I was in – the record company we were with, the gig venues and how they sounded, the equipment we had. Sometimes those restrictions are good, sometimes they cause choices  which make for work that is embarrassing in hindsight. There is less risk now for me than was the case then. It’s good and bad. I get a lot stimulation from the collaborations I’ve done. Where I don’t have to be completely responsible for all aspects of the work. I make choices that I would not have known how to make in the old days – sometimes quite “irresponsible” ones. Because I think it’s true that somebody who hasn’t been doing this for a very long time is just as cable of doing good as somebody who doing this for a long time.

In 1992 I saw you live in Ghent with The Fatima Mansions as support act for U2. How was that experience?
It was a business decision doing that, and as it goes in a business decision it didn’t work very well. I don’t know that we reached very many members of the audience. Well, some countries were better than others. Every week we had do some shows in Germany. The German audiences where not interested in a support act at all, and they would let us know from the very beginning. Ghent was ok, that was in the beginning of the tour.

Are you considering a Fatima Mansions reunion ever?
It could be fun, but it would be expensive, because everybody lives is very split up locations. One member in Germany, one member in Newcastle, one member in London. No opportunity is coming up at present, but it would be a lot of work. If somebody gave us the possibility (and somehow covered the cost), I would do it for a while.

But do you think if it would happen, could you be successful with a reunion? Mostly the expectations are huge if a band is doing that
In a limited way, I think yes, we could. But not in a huge way. We did it for Microdisney and I understand how these things can work. You don’t want to disappoint the audience. They may travel a long way and it costs them money and a lot of trouble to see the show. You’ve got to do something that is both convincing and satisfying for that kind of audience. In the Microdisney case, the planning needed for that was very straightforward. We knew how these things are meant to go. But with the Fatima Mansions we always messed with the audience, that was part of the show. It’s not easy to come back from the dead and do that again. The audience reaction would be unpredictable, so what would be best to do? I just don’t know.

DJ John Peel was also such a fan that he stated he could “listen to Cathal Coughlan sing the phone book”. How you feel about that?
I’m very grateful for the support my music got from those John Peel Sessions. It made a big difference for Microdisney to get off the ground. And later be able to get Fatima Mansions of the ground too. But we knew it couldn’t last forever. You can’t always please such powerful supporters, as your music changes, and their changes probably change also.

Can you talk about a breakthrough work, event or performance in your career
I suppose when Microdisney made “The Clock Comes Down The Stairs”. That was a big breakthrough. The fact that this album still means a lot to many people, means a lot for me too. The next thing was when I made my second solo album (“Black River Falls”) in 2000, that was after I had been going through some major contractual problems and I had been unable to work. That album was a weight off my shoulders.

You also released six acclaimed solo albums, what’s the biggest difference of making a solo album or with a band to you?
The fact is that when making a solo album, I have to think of everything. It sound obvious but you still have to show consideration to the people playing with you, making their work as enjoyable as possible for them. And you have to behave with respect – not like some superstar bandleader.

I wrote a review on your latest album 'Song of Co Aklan'; what appealed to me the most is that after all these years, you don't deliver a routine job with nothing to prove, congratulations. Your opinion on this statement please ?
I’m glad that’s the way you feel about it. But to me I always have something to prove because I’m not famous. I have to keep creating new work, because of the things which went wrong in my past. It’s not that I going to make an album of trap or grime or anything. Back in the 90’s there was not as big a division between various musical genres (and cultures) as there is now. I have the responsibility to think for myself, that’s what I want to do.

What I love the most is the class poet and storyteller in you, wonderful. Where does that inspiration come from?
From me and the world getting older. A capacity for fragility. A capacity for confusion. And the fact that the world has become a more complicated place to live in. Especially more complicated than the late 20th century. We see the world in a very complex yet, I would say, very subjective way. When you think there are people you expect you have something in common with, culturally or politically nowadays it may turn out that you have differences with them which make continued relations impossible.

I had also described you as 'a crooner who shines in simplicity and emotionality'. Your opinion on this statement?
It’s not for me to say. I’m glad you do, and hope some other people believe it also. About that simplicity, though: if I did complex things with my voice, it would not just be me. Simple is just how I sing. Emotionality? That’s not for me to say, either, I just hope I can touch people with my songs.

How have the general reactions been so far?
The reactions have been good, but it’s hard to understand what they mean in the longer term. But all the positive press, radio, podcast and other reactions – yes, that’s been good. It’s also a sign of how the world has changed. There are so many more small outlets than in the past. You have to work pretty hard to contact and speak to them all. It seems it have brought a lot of results, for now. Positive results, and some people who hadn’t heard of me before may have done so now.

It's a pity you can't present this solo album live, or maybe already in UK? In any case, are there any plans for streaming?
It’s complicated, I don’t know what size of band I can tour with, after the restrictions are gone. It’s just difficult to know where to begin. With live streaming I have seen good shows, and I have seen bad shows too, played by very good people. And the ones that worked were the ones with a budget which was that little bit higher than the others – so, better equipment! I’m not that connected to ways of doing it myself, I don’t think for me it would be any good. I’m still very busy with making new music. But as for playing on stage, I will just wait till it’s possible again to play with an audience. Safely. And I’ll really go ahead once it’s advertised. Because there is a lot gambling going on – tickets being sold for acts who just don’t know if they’ll be able to play. Maybe at the end of this year things will be definite.

I have to admit that I got to know certain artists, even styles of music, that I had overlooked until now. Is 'discovering bands' something good about streaming (also Spotify) your opinion please?
I think there is a place for streaming when the pandemic over, and there is a place for it now. For sure. It is just very risky, but for something like a festival, where you have a lot of people in the audience, and bands playing, and experienced technicians, it’s not that big deal. But if you’re all on you own in your home studio, it’s very risky doing it.

Now we start talk about Corona, how did you survive this not easy times being musician but also as human being?
It’s been very bewildering, I have had no idea what the right thing is to do, for a long time. All you can do is try not to get sick. What else can you do with the rest of your time? I was working on ‘Co-Aklan’ already when it all started. It was just a case of continuing what I was doing. I was very lucky that the drums had already been recorded. I working on another album that’s coming out later this year, by the group Telefís. It’s a collaboration (between me and the producer/musician Jacknife Lee), we already doing that so it’s all fine. It just makes it so hard to know what to do next. Because we don’t know what time will bring at the moment. What’s 2022 going to be? I don’t know, it’s difficult to make planes for the future.

In other interviews artists told me that this times give them more time to create things, they get peace and quiet and could compose songs, but yes what else?
Yes, but some of us are not able do do more than prepare it, that’s the biggest problem.

How you personally think music and culture will survive this times?
Honestly I’m very optimistic about that. People have found new ways to connect with one another. By streaming concerts and things like this. This can continue to happen (as long as there’s electricity and the Internet), because you don’t need to travel far from home to see a show or collaborate with someone. It’s always better to meet someone in person, but if you can’t meet in person there is now at least another option. The positive thing is that people find more creative way to combining their resources. For example, the venues which survive the pandemic are going to be very busy – probably for a few years. So for the less popular artists who can’t get gigs, there may be new options for reaching the audience.

I had recently a interview about this with Anne Clark. She said if this pandemic was in the ‘80s it would be much more a problem because there where no ways to connect like there is now?
She is absolutely right in saying that, but it’s a double edge. Part of the reason why this pandemic has created so much damage is that the present generation of political leaders contains many incompetent and corrupt individuals who owe their electoral mandate to lies they’ve been able to successfully tell by using social media and other digital means. If there was no internet, we might not have been governed by those people, and it’s likely that - in the English-speaking countries, and Brazil and India, at any rate - the damage might not have been so extreme.

Another subject, it’s not easy but. Are there any plans for any concerts or so in the autumn? In other words what are the further plans?
The first thing that’s going to happen is the first Telefís album, which I mentioned a moment ago. That album is coming out in September. We’ll bring some singles out starting at the end of this month. We already working on a second album for this project, and I’m also working on my own next album. So yes, we are keeping busy. It’s only sad that we can’t perform live. We of course miss the people, but also the understanding of how the people respond to the material you just made. That’s something you only find out when you can play the songs live. How you feel playing in the front of people and what you can learn from it, that’s missing now. To go on to the next project.

After all this years, are there still ambitions or something like ‘end goals’?
I think more from project to project than in terms of a definite ending state. I would like to do more singing. In 2019 I was able to do quite a lot of projects where I was not organizing the music, but I was simply the vocalist. I derived much satisfaction from that. It really helped me. Performing as “the singer” is certainly something I really want to do more. But that’s just a developmental assistance, not the end goal, which is to make my own work and to hopefully have it recognized by an audience.

When people remember you, how would you like to be remembered?
I suppose I would like to be remembered as a part of the group of Irish performers who have changed conceptions about what Irish artists stand for. And who brought “popular” music closer to some other areas of Irish culture which have traditionally been stronger than pop music, such as literature. Closer together, not necessarily combined. I was one of the earlier generations who sought to do this. The later generations have been more competent and confident about doing this, and this is something which I appreciate and feel proud of, in whatever small way I’ve contributed.

Is there anything else you like to say to our readers? Stay Safe?
Definitely stay safe, of course (haha). Also, don’t listen to anybody who tells you to leave the European Union.

What is your opinion about all that Brexit anyway? What’s the vote here ?
The British nation voted for something, but they didn’t know very much about what it would be, and they still don’t really know what it is. Britain has been having an identity crisis for a pretty long time. Many countries which had overseas colonies struggle to get used to life as a single country. All of those countries experienced some sort of crisis, whether immediately or later. This is part of Britain’s crisis.
Of course, some who voted for Brexit did so from a feeling that the European project had become a neo-liberal construct, which had little care for democracy. For me, there’s some truth in this, but at this time in history, the EU is the best Europe can do. The rest of the world doesn’t look so great, remember – the US, Russia, China…

Britain is also an Island, maybe people there don’t really know what’s going on in Europe? It’s that another reason why they vote Brexit?
Yes, that’s true. I was raised and remain an Irish person (who happens to live in Britain). Ireland is a rather small country. As a child, I was made to understand that we may be quite visible, but we are still a small country. And the world is not looking at us in amazement at our greatness. A lot of British people have a different way of understanding their country and (especially) its history. The attitude to other languages and cultures is part of the problem and a symptom. It’s, “They’re nice (or hideous), they’re exotic, but they’re not the real thing, which is our language and culture”. The association with America through language and a dwindling handful of other things, which can often be despairingly competitive for Britain, has unfortunately given that perception more lifespan than it might otherwise have had.

Thanks for this nice conversation, I hope we can do this over soon face to face
I hope so also